20071023

The Objective and the subjective

A week or so back (I'm pretty sure it was on the 7th) I was getting ready for church. I had the TV on (I use it to sometimes help me pull out of my slumber) and Pastor Joel Osteen was on. As I've mentioned in the past, I am not a reall big 'fan' of Pastor Osteen's message, but his broadcast is so much better than say news or even sports (gasp!) when I am trying to wake up and get myself and my family ready for church. Anyway, I was still fairly groggy when I heard, "...and he changed God's mind". That pretty much snapped me out of my half-asleep state. "What do you mean he changed God's mind?" I thought to myself. I couldn't have heard a Pastor say that a man, any man, changed God's mind, did I? I grabbed the remote, scrolled through the listings and saw that Pastor Orsteen's broadcast was going to be played on a different station during the next half hour. I quickly jumped in the shower so I could catch the sermon from its beginning, and I could then hear the entire message in context. Meanwhile all kinds of thoughts are jamming through my mind. To be totally honest, I was distracted as I "monitored" Pastor Osteen's broadcast the second time, and time has faded the 'edges' from my memory, but the item that I had concern with was his use of a passage from 2 Kings. God's prophet was told to go to the king and inform him that he would die. When the prophet confronts the king with this terrible news, the king pleads with the prophet (and thus with God indirectly), citing all that he had done to tear down the idols left behind by his father. How he had turned himself, and Isreal, back to the one true God. And that is when I heard it again, "...and He changed God's mind." I want to be perfectly clear in my next point... how is it possible for a man to change God's mind?!? We are finite, He is infinite, we are mortal, He is immortal, we are limited in what we know, He knows all things from all times, we are subjective, He is objective. I went back and read throught this account (2 Kings 20). I do not see God's mind changing, I see a king changing. I see a message being recorded for those whom come after. The story of Jonah - the whole purpose of Jonah going to Ninivah was not to destroy those people, but to bring a message of hope. The angels that went into Sodom and Gemorah were sent there to see if they could be redeemed. I feel that such messages, that man can change anything about God, are dangerous. It says that God can be molded into what we want. That He can be formed into a God who serves the creation instead of creation serving the Creator. If such a thing where possible how could we ever trust a God who changes at the whims of others - especially if there are two of us who may disagree on something. God's Word is clear: “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (Revelation 1:8, ESV) God has known each of us, not just those called to His Son, but all of His creation. He knows all of our days... "in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them." (Psalm 139:16, ESV). Therefor He is not surprised when the king of Isreal weaps and repents, God is not surprised when the people of Ninavah put on sack cloth and throw ashes on their heads - nor is God surprised when we are convicted of our sin and fall on our knees to beg forgiveness at His alter. I don't think Pastor Osteen's intent is in anyway to distort or mislead God's people. I really believe his intent is not to paint a misleading image of the Lord. I fully believe his intent is to have people believe in themselves, to pull themselves up by their boot straps (so to speak), and take a proactive role (from their subjective point of view) in their relationship with God. But what I think would have served Pastor Orsteen's congregatin better, and those who are in the audience of his weekly broadcasts, is to preach that it was not God who changed, but the king's heart and his view of God. The message of sin, and the terrible consequenses of them, is not to drag a person down into the mud to wallow in self pity - but it is to shed light on what Christ has actually accomplished on the cross. The gospel is not about what we accomplish, but what He accomplished. God knows it all. He knew it all before He even formed the earth. He does not change, but He uses our circumstances to change us (Romans 8:28-30). So when the Holy Spirit speaks to you (either through a 'prophet', or His Word, or just a 'gut feeling'), and you see the circumstances changing after you have reacted, remember it is not because God has changed - but it's because God was using something to change you, and He is revealing the change through external means. Verse for today: 2 Kings 20:1-6, ESV In those days Hezekiah became sick and was at the point of death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came to him and said to him, “Thus says the Lord, ‘Set your house in order, for you shall die; you shall not recover.’” Then Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the Lord, saying, “Now, O Lord, please remember how I have walked before you in faithfulness and with a whole heart, and have done what is good in your sight.” And Hezekiah wept bitterly. 4 And before Isaiah had gone out of the middle court, the word of the Lord came to him: “Turn back, and say to Hezekiah the leader of my people, Thus says the Lord, the God of David your father: I have heard your prayer; I have seen your tears. Behold, I will heal you. On the third day you shall go up to the house of the Lord, and I will add fifteen years to your life. I will deliver you and this city out of the hand of the king of Assyria, and I will defend this city for my own sake and for my servant David's sake.”

2 comments:

Alise said...

It's funny, because if I was using a prooftext about a man changing God's mind, I'd use Abraham's bargaining with God over Sodom & Gommorah. To me, that's the closest example of that happening that I can recall.

It's one of those difficult issues, IMO. God, being outside of time & space already knows the outcome of every situation. But God also says to keep knocking, to keep seeking, to keep asking, so it would appear to me that He is interested in our input on issues as well. I'm not sure I'm willing to say that we change God's mind, but I'm also not willing to say that He doesn't take our desires into consideration either.

And as far as the whole "feel good" thing with Orsteen goes, to me the best feel good passage in all of Scripture is that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. I don't think he preaches that near often enough, which is a disappointment to me.

Thanks for making me think today! Don't be surprised if this topic doesn't come up on my own blog before too long!

2nd Cup of Coffee said...

I was thinking along the same lines as Big Mama in her 2nd paragraph there. As far as Osteen's feel good stuff, I believe the doctrine must stay the same throughout the years, but the methodology has to be culturally relevant to the hearers. Some people, in pseudo-sophistication or pure ignorance will immediately tune out if you come down the track like a locotomotive with the Gospel whistle blowing loudly. Do we just brush them aside? I don't think so. I think this is when 1 Cor. 9:22 is applicable: "To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some." Until people connect with you emotionally, they do not usually care to hear what you know, even if you proclaim it as truth. In youth ministry they say, "The kids don't care how much you know until they know how much you care." I think Osteen is a fisher of men. Not a perfect fisherman, though, no one is! I see him reeling hurting people in and ministering to them alongside sharing the gospel. People don't all fish the same.